HomeMy WebLinkAboutMin-09-17-08CODES AND ORDINANCES COMMITTEE
MEETING MINUTES
SEPTEMBER 17, 2008
MEMBERS PRESENT: Bill Goodman, Herb Engman, Pat Leary, Eric Levine, Fred Wilcox, Kirk
Sigel, Eva Hoffmann.
OTHER TOWN OFFICIALS PRESENT: Rich DePaolo, Town Board; Tee-Ann Hunter, Town
Board; Peter Stein, Town Board; Susan Brock, Attorney for the Town; Jonathan Kanter, Director of
Planning; Bruce Bates, Director of Code Enforcement; Sue Ritter, Assistant Director of Planning;
Christine Balestra, Planner.
GUESTS PRESENT: Don Smith, West Shore Homeowners’ Association (Town of Ulysses); Bob
Barthoff, West Shore Homeowners’ Association (Town of Ithaca).
Chair Bill Goodman called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
Agenda Item No. 1 - Member Comments/Concerns: None.
Agenda Item No. 2 – Approval of Minutes of August 20, 2008 Meeting:
Susan pointed out an error on page 3, first paragraph, second to last line, indicating that the wording
“10-feet of the shore” should say “10-feet from the shore”. On page 2, last paragraph, first line, Bill
suggested adding “and Bill Goodman” after “contacted the Town Supervisor”. Moved by Fred,
seconded by Herb, the Minutes of the August 20, 2008 meeting were approved by all with Eva
abstaining.
Agenda Item No. 3 – Continuation of Review of Lakefront Residential Zone Amendments:
Bill referred to the handouts provided by Chris at the meeting. Chris reported that the Committee
had asked staff to research what other communities have done regarding regulation of moorings.
She contacted eleven communities. The approaches vary greatly. Chris found examples in four
communities (as outlined in her handout “Example Mooring Provisions From Four NYS
Municipalities”) that require that moorings cannot project over neighboring lot lines, as projected
from the shoreline. Other communities that she sampled do not have specific mooring regulations.
In Skaneateles, the Sheriff is authorized to issue mooring permits. Chris suggested that because of
problems with measuring where in relation to the lot line a mooring would be located out in the
water, that an approach might be to eliminate any setback requirement for a mooring, but just
require it to be centered between the projected lot lines to the extent possible. Bill reminded the
Committee that the current wording in the draft amendments requires a mooring to be setback at
least 10 feet from an abutting lot line extended out from the shoreline. Herb mentioned that these
types of provisions do not address moorings for people who do not own lakefront property. Tee-
Ann mentioned that Aurora allows boats to be moored off shore by people who do not own
lakefront property. Some on the Committee indicated that Aurora is a different situation because it
has more public access to the lake than exists in the Town of Ithaca. There was extensive
discussion about how far out into the lake do the rights of lakefront property owners extend, and
what rights on the lake does the general public have. A number of Committee members expressed
the view that the public has a right to moor a boat in the lake even if they do not own lakefront
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property. Kirk indicated that they would have to access the lake from public land, and the only
public access in the Town of Ithaca is at East Shore Park. Don Smith indicated that people will
navigate their boats up and down the lake near the shore and sometimes fish close to the shore, but
he has not seen any non-resident moor a boat and leave it off shore. Don added that because of the
narrow width of many lots along the shore, a requirement to place a mooring midway between the
lot lines might create a difficulty in relation to where a dock is located. Peter mentioned that he
recently attended a lecture regarding water rights, at which it was indicated that beyond the low
water mark, there is no private ownership of the lake – it is in the public domain.
Several Committee members, including Kirk, Bill, and Pat, suggested taking out the provision
regarding moorings. Susan reminded the Committee that under the NYS Navigation law, with the
required authorization, a municipality can regulate uses out to 1,500 feet from the shoreline. Kirk
said that he would favor a straightforward regulation such as saying that a moored boat cannot
extend beyond the projected lot line. Eric agreed and said that he is not aware of any boat owners
who moor their boat offshore who do own the abutting lakefront property, and that the regulation
should be aimed at protecting the adjoining property owners’ right to access their shoreline. Eva
added that the purpose should be to protect the character of the shoreline. Bill said that it sounds
like at least three Committee members want some regulation of moorings. Pat indicated that she
would be willing to go along with a simple regulation and does not like the centering provision –
perhaps just restrict a moored boat from crossing the adjacent property line extended from the
shoreline. Peter asked whether a mooring is just a buoy with a rope attaching it to the lake bottom.
Chris responded that some moorings are larger - some have a swimming platform attached. Bruce
suggested that it might be difficult to enforce a regulation that prohibits a moored boat from
crossing an adjacent property line - it could be hard to measure.
Herb suggested removing the reference in the current wording of the amendment relating to
moorings “in connection with littoral parcels”. The Committee again went into discussion about
who has the right to place a mooring and that the public has the right to use the lake even where
they do not own lakefront property. Herb added that unless there is a distance restriction, an owner
of lakefront property could place a mooring as far as 1,499 feet from the shoreline. Another
suggestion was to limit the number of moorings per lot. Bill mentioned that the current law limits
the number of moorings to one per 100 feet of shoreline. There was continued disagreement over
rights of the public vs, rights of the homeowner on the lake. Peter suggested that the Attorney for
the Town should research the question of rights to the lake. Tee-Ann indicated that it would be
important in whatever regulation we come up with to clearly state that the regulation allows the
property owner to place a mooring off of their shoreline under certain conditions, but that in no way
precludes the rights of the public to place a mooring in the lake. Susan pointed to the examples on
the handout provided by Chris, and read the portion of the Canandaigua example that says that each
moored vessel will avoid contact with any other moored vessel or structure. Bill said that he likes
the Canandaigua and Penn Yan examples. Pat urged the Committee to proceed to come up with
proposed wording tonight.
Rich asked how one distinguishes between “water use” and “water rights” mentioned in both of the
examples. Eric emphasized that the references to “lot line extension” is just for measuring where
the boat should be moored, not for creating any ownership rights to the lake. Herb agreed. Eva said
that she is concerned with a mooring extending out too far from the shoreline – that it could
interfere with other boating activities such as water skiing. Don recommended that moorings be
placed no more than 100 feet from the shoreline. Others agreed on such a restriction.
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Susan read some suggested language based on the Committee’s discussion, which is a blend of
examples 1 and 4 on the handout, adding that we would need to define water lines as not conveying
any owner rights, and a provision could be added limiting placement of moorings to no more than
100 feet from the Ordinary High Water line. After some further word smithing, Susan read
proposed language for the mooring regulation to replace section L.1 in the current amendment to
the Lakefront Residential Zone as follows: “Moorings shall be placed within the water rights
lines of the parcel so as not to interfere with the waterside usage of adjacent parcels, provided
that such moorings and boats secured to such moorings shall not extend more than 100 feet
from the Ordinary High Water line, and further provided that such moorings may in no case
be placed in any location in which they may pose navigation hazards or interfere with
navigation or access to adjoining lots. Moorings shall be placed in such a manner that each
moored vessel will avoid contact with any other vessel or structure. At no time may a moored
vessel or part thereof extend outside the limits of any water rights line of a parcel.” Eric made
a motion to accept this wording suggested by Susan. The motion was seconded by Pat. Bill
asked if there was further discussion of the proposed mooring language. Kirk indicated that the
deletion of the reference to littoral parcels would allow any non-resident to place a mooring in front
of anyone’s property. Bill indicated that the regulation assumes that the mooring is related to the
parcel where it is placed. Jonathan suggested leaving it to practicality and common sense because
we have already heard that people do not place moorings off of property that they do not own. Don
added that the limitation of no more than one mooring per 100 feet of shoreline will further control
this situation. Jonathan mentioned that some communities have permit systems for placement of
public moorings. These are typical in areas where there is competition for mooring space. Bill
asked whether the issue of legal rights on the lake could be clarified before the October 20th public
hearing on the Lakefront Zone amendments. Pat indicated that she likes the wording proposed by
Susan. Bill asked if the Committee was ready to vote on the motion for the proposed wording. The
Committee voted as follows: Four in favor of the motion, including Pat, Kirk, Fred and Eric;
three opposed, including Herb, Eva and Bill. (The vote was on the language referred to by
Susan including the sentence that moorings would be tied to the parcel.)
Herb said that he could support the language if the reference to littoral parcels in L.1 is deleted. Pat
said that she does not have a strong feeling, but would go along with deleting that reference also.
Bill and Eva both expressed reservations about voting on language that they had not seen before the
meeting.
Bill then referred to the West Shore Homeowners Association (WSHA) suggestions on the handout
dated September 16, 2008. They were addressed by the Committee as follows.
1. Dock should be 350 square feet: Don indicated that the WSHA recommends changing the
maximum allowable area of a dock from 300 square feet to 350 square feet mainly because of safety
issues. He explained that if a dock is 50 feet long, then its width woul d have to be no more than 6
feet, and if an “L” is added at the end of a dock, that would further reduce the width of the dock if
the overall area is limited to 300 square feet. Don added that this could create safety problems.
Fred said that he has no problem with the additional 50 square feet. Eva said that the Committee
has talked about dock length and area a lot, and if an owner wants a wider dock, they should make
the dock shorter. Kirk and Bill agreed that they could support changing the area to 350 square feet.
Herb said that he would vote against such a change. Herb added that the survey of lakefront owners
indicated that owners were happy with a dock length of 30 to 40 feet, and the Committee has
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already increased the length to 50 feet. Bruce mentioned that the Building Code requires a corridor
to be not less than 44 inches wide so that two people can pass safely and this is also the minimum
width that a wheel chair needs. Bruce added that although four feet in width is probably safe, the
Building Code does not address docks. Bill asked Tee-Ann and Rich to weigh in on this, since they
will have to vote on it if it goes back to the Town Board. Rich said that he does not want to pre -
judge it and wants to hear from the public on their comments. Tee-Ann said that she has no opinion
at this point. Pat indicated that she is concerned that the proposed amendments have been passed
back and forth between the Committee and Town Board several times. There was further
discussion about whether it was proper for Town Board members to state a head of time how they
will vote at the Board meeting. Fred made a motion to revise the local law to increase the
maximum permitted dock area from 300 square feet to 350 square feet. Kirk seconded the
motion. A vote resulted as follows: Five in favor, including Bill, Eric, Pat, Fred, and Kirk;
two opposed, including Herb and Eva.
2. Size of storage sheds: Don stated that the WSHA suggests that storage sheds on the shoreline be
allowed to be up to 150 square feet, not 100 feet as in the proposed amendment. Don added that an
owner of a wood canoe needs a longer shed, and that canoes can be up to 15 to 18 feet. Fred
mentioned that it would have to be a very narrow shed to store a canoe. Rich mentioned that there
is a variance process in which the Zoning Board could grant a variance for a larger shed if the
proper criteria are met. Kirk concurred. Pat said that the Committee should be setting the rules
based on reality. Pat reminded the Committee that every time the law is sent back to the
Committee, additional comments come in that starts new discussion. Tee-Ann thought that sheds
were added as permitted structures mainly for the convenience of the owner to not have to carry
things to and from the house. Tee-Ann added that she has a problem with the suggested increase in
size of sheds. Kirk made a motion to increase the permitted size of a storage shed on the
shoreline from a maximum of 100 square feet to a maximum of 150 square feet. Pat seconded
the motion. A vote resulted as follows: Three in favor, including Bill, Kirk and Pat; four
opposed, including Fred, Herb, Eva and Eric. The motion failed to carry.
3. Boat lift at end of dock: Susan reminded the Committee about this issue. Bill said that at the last
Committee meeting, it was indicated that most people do not place a boat lift at the end of a dock.
The Committee agreed by consensus that the dock length wording should be changed to include a
boat lift in the overall maximum permitted length of 50 feet. As a follow up to the discussion at the
last meeting, the Committee also agreed unanimously to change the maximum height of a boat lift
from 8 feet to 15 feet.
Chris reported that she had checked with the Code Enforcement staff regarding whether a stairway
on the shoreline would require a building permit. The response she got was no, the NYS Building
Code does not require a building permit for a stairway, and the Town has no regulation regarding
stairways. They are considered to be projections, and if they are not three feet or more above grade
level, they are not regulated. Chris reminded the Committee that at the last meeting, they said that
if stairways are not regulated by building permits, then they should not be addressed in the
Lakefront Zone. The Committee concurred.
Bill asked whether the Committee was ready to send the revised amendments regarding the
Lakefront Zone, discussed and voted upon at this meeting, to the Town Board for consideration.
Eric made a motion to send the revised local law to the Town Board. Pat seconded the
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motion. The motion was passed by a vote of four in favor, including Eric, Pat, Fred, and
Kirk; two opposed (Eva and Herb), and one abstention (Bill).
Agenda Item No. 4 – Other Business: None.
Agenda Item No. 5 - Schedule and Agenda for Next Meeting:
The Committee agreed to hold the next meeting on the scheduled date of Wednesday, October 15th,
2008 and to continue discussion on the proposed Stream Setback Law, consider amendments to the
Town Zoning provisions regarding fences, and continuing review and revision of the Town Sign
Law (Chapter 221 of Town Code).
Adjournment: The meeting was adjourned at 9:40 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Jonathan Kanter, Director of Planning