Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutRMAB Minutes 2008-01-01Records Management Advisory Board Karen Billings, Town Clerk and RMAB Chair • Herb Engman, Town Supervisor • Pat Leary, Town Board Member • Dan Walker, Town Engineer • Laura W. Johnson-Kelly, Town Historian • Gail Kroll, Public Works • Lisa Carrier-Titti, Network Technician MEETING AGENDA Meeting Date: February 5, 2008 Meeting Place: Aurora Room, Town Hall 1. Get acquainted and discuss history (15 min.) 2. Review past efforts by RMAB and chart a path for the balance of the year (30 min.) o The Town of Ithaca’s Manual of Records Management Policies and Procedures is a working document – do we want to continue with the revisions previously charted or begin anew? o Projects and delegation of tasks 3. Updated information from NYS – Part 185, 8NYCRR – do we need to address these changes now? (10 min.) 4. Other items 5. Close the meeting and schedule next meeting Meeting Notes: 1. All members present. Judy Drake was a guest; 2. The Town’s records management policy was last updated in 1992. All agreed that a critical review of the current policy and updates are necessary, particularly in light of the changes that have occurred in storage and retrieval since 1992. Lisa Carrier-Titti and Tee Ann Hunter previously worked together to dissect a generic Records Management Policy booklet from NYS and try to make it applicable for the Town of Ithaca. The document is still a work in progress and it was decided that the members of this Records Management Advisory Board would review the draft document and offer comments and suggestions at our next meeting; Discussion also focused on electronic copies vs. hard copies; empirical (original) versions of a document vs. copies – challenges exist today that were previously not thought of, for instance: with the advent of color copy machines documents are copied so well that it is often difficult to distinguish between the original and a copy. If a document is stamped “original” and is copied, how does one determine that the copy is a copy? There are whole host of problems inherent with this and we all agreed that we are not unique. Rather than reinvent the wheel, I will seek answers from SARA. Historical: The Town stores documents for other government entities. Karen Billings will pull the policy and rates and distribute to the group. Herb asked why the Ithaca FD is not charged a fee. (KB checked into this and found out that the previous Town Supervisor determined that since the Town pays for the services of the FD, turning around and charging them a fee would be like charging ourselves); the Historical Society used to store documents but no longer does, according to Laura. Discussion about how we currently store documents: Paper copies of signed contracts and agreements: the original is date stamped and copied. The copy is retained in a binder in the Town Clerk’s office and the original is filed in a locked file cabinet. All originals must be stored with the Town Clerk. If an original is received directly by the Town Supervisor, it should be brought to the Town Clerk for storage and copying; same policy for departmental originals of contracts and agreements. If a document is not date stamped, it can be assumed that the Town Clerk never received it in for distribution. Lisa discussed the current e-mail policy for the Town. She and Judy Drake are working on revisions and updates to the policy. It was suggested that town hall staff may need more training because of the complexity of storage and retrieval. Document attachments appear to be the bane of the IT department, because of the redundancy of the attachment and the size. Lisa suggested bringing this up at a PEZ meeting and she will provide the Board with more information at our next meeting. Lisa mentioned that Sherpa Technologies can do “full-text” indexing or by certain criteria. Prices range from $12,000 to $20,000. She also mentioned that additional policing of the network, as a part of her job function, would require another full-time staff person. Paper documents were always the “official” documents for storage purposes. The state appears to be moving in the direction of electronic document storage. We briefly discussed various initiatives and state monies available for storage. Pat Leary recommends keeping the paper original as the official document because the Town has ample storage space. Future Perspective: It was decided that the Board would meet the third Thursday of every month at 1:00 p.m. in the Tioga Room, except for the March meeting, which is scheduled for Wednesday, March 19th at 1:00 p.m. in the Tioga Room. Prior to the March 19th meeting, board members will review the draft version of the Town of Ithaca’s Manual of Records Management Policies and Procedures and be ready to comment and suggest changes; It was also decided that we would try to establish a policy related to the receipt of documents and designate what constitutes an official town record and establish a criteria surrounding what records will be kept on paper and what records can be turned into electronic (original) documents. Respectfully submitted by: Karen M. Billings, February 7, 2008 L:\Committees\Records Management Advisory Board\2008\03 18 2008 Notes.doc Records Management Advisory Board Karen Billings, Town Clerk and RMAB Chair • Herb Engman, Town Supervisor • Pat Leary, Town Board Member • Dan Walker, Town Engineer • Laura W. Johnson-Kelly, Town Historian • Gail Kroll, Public Works • Lisa Carrier-Titti, Network Technician MEETING AGENDA Meeting Date: Wednesday, March 20, 2008/ 1:00 p.m. Meeting Place: Tioga Room, Town Hall 1. Digital recording of TB meetings – consider the possibilities and the pitfalls. What kind of policy do we want to establish? 2. Comments and suggestions regarding the DRAFT Procedures and Policy Manual – this is the document passed out at the last meeting with all of the red cross outs. 3. e-mail policy and storage (attachments and policy) MEETING NOTES: 1. Digital recording of the meeting minutes – How long should we keep them? Make them available on-line? Pat discussed the ITCT meeting that she went to and the format utilized. Lisa mentioned that this is not currently a labor saving device because it needs editing she spoke about the beta testing of the digital recorder (2 hr mtg is approx 2 GB) ; archival needs to be planned; they can be compressed to use less space on the server, but to make avail for everyone, we may have to keep them in an uncompressed format. Another process is to burn these to DVD, which would allow us to use 2.5 DVD’s per meeting. Herb views this as another medium that the public can go to for information; he questioned the number of hits and what is going on at the county? Lisa will check this out. Lisa mentioned that if we provide this, we have to plan to put the time and effort into creating something that the public can utilize (space on the server, format, etc.). Pat would like something with the comprehensive plan – more notes about what is happening and she wondered if we will continue to use the digital system. Lisa said that we can do a three month test. Laura asked about digital video process; Lisa said that the city does this and we need to find out what the cost would be. Herb said that if we were to go in that direction, we would have to investigate costs. Joe Scalzone does the video – Ithaca School District – he set them up. Cty Leg. Uses Jim to set this up. Once we know the costs we can look at the rest of the issues. Laura wondered about setting up a camera; Herb responded that a person would need to actually do the filming because one static camera can be monotonous; he said that it’s worthwhile if it’s done well. The value is in getting more information through another medium – allowing the meetings to be L:\Committees\Records Management Advisory Board\2008\03 18 2008 Notes.doc video recorded provides another medium. We will do a BETA TEST April 1 – June 30 of the digital audio recording. 2. Comments and suggestions on the DRAFT Procedures…The red-lined version is the one to use. Dan suggested that we work with one document and footnote it. I suggested that we get rid of all other versions. Dan said that the records start at the top – in essence copy vs. original. Lisa suggests not even trying to compare the policy that is in place; we should only use the red-lined version to update our own policy. We should critically review it. It was decided that we would each take a section to critically review and comment on and be prepared to discuss this more thoroughly at our next RMAB meeting. Breakdown or who will do which sections: I. Records Management Program – Karen II. Creation of Records – Dan III. Retention and Disposition of Records – Gail IV. Storage and Preservation of Records – Lisa and Karen V. Records Retrieval and Access – Laura and Dan VI. Electronic Records – Lisa VII. Archives and Secondary Use of Records – Pat Leary and Laura 3. E-mail policy will be brought up through the evaluation of the RM policy. When you delete something, delete the attachment, too. Save the attachment on your own desktop –this alleviates excess storage on the server. More discussion will take place in the future. Meeting ended: 2:30 p.m. Next meeting: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 at 1:00 p.m. Respectfully submitted by Karen Billings L:\Committees\Records Management Advisory Board\2008\03-19.doc Records Management Advisory Board Karen Billings, Town Clerk and RMAB Chair • Herb Engman, Town Supervisor • Pat Leary, Town Board Member • Dan Walker, Town Engineer • Laura W. Johnson-Kelly, Town Historian • Gail Kroll, Public Works • Lisa Carrier-Titti, Network Technician MEETING AGENDA Meeting Date: Wednesday, March 20, 2008/ 1:00 p.m. Meeting Place: Tioga Room, Town Hall 1. Digital recording of TB meetings – consider the possibilities and the pitfalls. What kind of policy do we want to establish? 2. Comments and suggestions regarding the DRAFT Procedures and Policy Manual – this is the document passed out at the last meeting with all of the red cross outs. 3. e-mail policy and storage (attachments and policy) MEETING NOTES: 1. Digital recording of the meeting minutes – How long should we keep them? Make them available on-line? Pat discussed the ITCT meeting that she went to and the format utilized (note from Pat: The name of the transportation group I mentioned is ITCTC, but the point of my bringing it up was to mention that the secretary said no one ever asks to hear the recorded file, and that several members asked for more detailed written minutes.). Lisa mentioned that this is not currently a labor saving device because it needs editing she spoke about the beta testing of the digital recorder (2 hr mtg is approx 2 GB) ; archival needs to be planned; they can be compressed to use less space on the server, but to make avail for everyone, we may have to keep them in an uncompressed format. Another process is to burn these to DVD, which would allow us to use 2.5 DVD’s per meeting. Herb views this as another medium that the public can go to for information; he questioned the number of hits and what is going on at the county? Lisa will check this out. Lisa mentioned that if we provide this, we have to plan to put the time and effort into creating something that the public can utilize (space on the server, format, etc.). Pat would like something with the comprehensive plan – more notes about what is happening and she wondered if we will continue to use the digital system. Lisa said that we can do a three month test. Laura asked about digital video process; Lisa said that the city does this and we need to find out what the cost would be. Herb said that if we were to go in that direction, we would have to investigate costs. Joe Scalzone does the video – Ithaca School District – he set them up. Cty Leg. Uses Jim to set this up. Once we know the costs we can look at the rest of the issues. Laura wondered about setting up a camera; Herb L:\Committees\Records Management Advisory Board\2008\03-19.doc responded that a person would need to actually do the filming because one static camera can be monotonous; he said that it’s worthwhile if it’s done well. The value is in getting more information through another medium – allowing the meetings to be video recorded provides another medium. We will do a BETA TEST April 1 – June 30 of the digital audio recording. 2. Comments and suggestions on the DRAFT Procedures…The red-lined version is the one to use. Dan suggested that we work with one document and footnote it. I suggested that we get rid of all other versions. Dan said that the records start at the top – in essence copy vs. original. Lisa suggests not even trying to compare the policy that is in place; we should only use the red-lined version to update our own policy. We should critically review it. It was decided that we would each take a section to critically review and comment on and be prepared to discuss this more thoroughly at our next RMAB meeting. Breakdown or who will do which sections: I. Records Management Program – Karen II. Creation of Records – Dan III. Retention and Disposition of Records – Gail IV. Storage and Preservation of Records – Lisa and Karen V. Records Retrieval and Access – Laura and Dan VI. Electronic Records – Lisa VII. Archives and Secondary Use of Records – Pat Leary and Laura 3. E-mail policy will be brought up through the evaluation of the RM policy. When you delete something, delete the attachment, too. Save the attachment on your own desktop –this alleviates excess storage on the server. More discussion will take place in the future. Meeting ended: 2:30 p.m. Next meeting: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 at 1:00 p.m. Respectfully submitted by Karen Billings TOWN OF ITHACA Records Management Advisory Board Karen Billings, Town Clerk and RMAB Chair • Herb Engman, Town Supervisor • Pat Leary, Town Board Member • Dan Walker, Town Engineer • Laura W. Johnson-Kelly, Town Historian • Gail Kroll, Public Works • Lisa Carrier-Titti, Network Technician MEETING AGENDA Meeting Date: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 Meeting Place: Tioga Room, Town Hall 1. Briefly review policies and procedures manual homework from last meeting and establish immediate goals and long-term goals; 2. Establish assignments; 3. Questions and comments MEETING NOTES Attendees: Laura, Dan, Lisa, Herb, Pat, Karen Guest: Judy Absent: Gail Discussion: Karen opened the meeting by asking everyone if they had any comments about the reading they did on the Lisa – Went through the entire manual. ITS policy is the most notable change Karen discussed the need for an overriding policy and brought up issues surrounding e-mail and the need for a policy as per discussions and training at the RMO (Records Management Officer) training last week. Herb wants to see the definitions outlined before the next meeting. For instance, what is the definition of a record? Judy suggested that pieces of the original procedures can be utilized to develop our current policy – the 1992 policy. Lisa passed out the Mission Statement; Pat wanted to work out the details of the document and asked for comments. Lisa reiterated what Herb suggested about the old policies and asked for clarification. Herb said that the overriding document is intense and too much for any staff member to read and absorb. The detail is necessary for the Town Clerk (only). A summary document would better serve the majority of people Lisa proposed that we look at some best practices for an e-mail policy and review the current document. Public e-mail folder called Records Management – one depository, was discussed. The end result of how we will pool our e-mail will rest with the overall policy. The policy will be the overriding document. Karen mentioned points that were discussed at the Records Management Officers training session in Watkins Glen on April 16th, regarding storage of e-mail, what gets saved, etc. She also brought up the point that so many users are currently depending on their e-mail program as a method of filing because it is so much easier to retrieve documents. Another point that was discussed centered on the aspect of keeping electronic documents in electronic format vs. creating a print out of an e-document and filing it in a separate place. She stressed that an overall policy determines how the organization will deal with storage and disposition. Meeting Outcome: It was decided that we will follow two tracks in order to pull together two very important documents that the town has been operating without for over 8 years. Judy added some very important comments about the need for policies, because staff has operated for so long without and there is much confusion. Prior to the next meeting we will work on the following projects: Part I Herb suggested working on Section I, Records Management Program of the Records Management Policies and Procedures draft. As a group, we will delve into this section of the RM Policy and make necessary alterations. Part II Best Practices in e-mail policies. We will review other organization’s policies in order to come up with a good overriding policy that can be incorporated into the town’s policies. We have much to accomplish in a short period of time. It was decided that future meetings will last from 1:00 p.m. to 2:30 p.m. on the third Thursday of every month and between meetings, particularly when we are working on documents and policy updates, we will depend on e-mail to accomplish more throughout the month. The various changes and alterations to the documents will be e-mailed back and forth to the group during the course of the month. Next Meeting: May 15, 2008 @ 1:00 p.m. TOWN OF ITHACA Records Management Advisory Board Karen Billings, Town Clerk and RMAB Chair • Herb Engman, Town Supervisor • Pat Leary, Town Board Member • Dan Walker, Town Engineer • Laura W. Johnson-Kelly, Town Historian • Gail Kroll, Public Works • Lisa Carrier-Titti, Network Technician MEETING AGENDA Meeting Date: May 15, 2008 Meeting Place: Tioga Room, Town Hall 1. Discuss work on Section I, Records Management Program of the Records Management Policies and Procedures draft (Definition of a Record – see notes below) a. Karen will describe the process she currently goes through to obtain a record; b. Discussion will focus on achieving a better methodology for storage and retrieval of records 2. Discuss e-mail policy draft and any other submittals NYS Archives defines a RECORD as, Records are information your organization creates and maintains in the course of doing business. Records can be in any media, including paper, magnetic tape, and optical disks. Work-related records, including e-mail, that employees produce in their homes and on their personal home computers are still the property of your organization. Publications are not records, except for a single copy of any publication your organization produces. Your records are unique to your organization, and are evidence of who you are and what you do. E-mail is a communication technology used to transmit information, regardless of content or purpose, between individuals. The introduction of e-mail into an office can revolutionize how staff communicates. It also raises the following records and information management questions for government officials. (retrieved above information on May 15, 2008 from, http://www.archives.nysed.gov/a/records/mr_id.shtml) NYS Archives further delineates records, particularly e-mail records below: Definition of a Record: According to the NYS Education Department, e-mail messages are official records when they are created or received in the course of business and are retained as evidence of official decisions, actions, or transactions. Court rulings have consistently confirmed that e-mail messages may be official records and that organizations must treat them as they do records in other formats. Since many copies of a single e-mail message may exist within a single organization, however, users must identify the record copy, which often but not always will be the sender’s copy. For instance, if the head of a department sends out a policy directive to everyone on staff, every copy of that e-mail is not a record, but the copy in the departments head’s outbox is. E-mail messages that are usually records include • Policies and directives • Correspondence or memoranda related to official business • Work schedules and assignments • Agendas and minutes of meetings • Documents that initiate, authorize, or complete a business transaction • Final reports or recommendations (http://www.archives.nysed.gov/a/records/mr_pub62_accessible.html) MEETING NOTES Present: Supervisor Engman; Councilwoman Leary; Lisa Carrier-Titti; Dan Walker; Gail Kroll; Karen Billings Karen recapped an in the trenches report of records retrieval. The outcome of her report yielded the following: Karen and Lisa will consult with the (mini) SASS group, inclusive of Paulette, Carrie, Dani and Sandy, about the procedures they use for responding to a FOIL Request; The procedures, as outlined by this mini SASS group will be taken to the SAC group for discussion, input and process changes; The new procedures will be integrated into the current procedures through a methodology agreed upon at the SAC group meeting; Additionally, because there are so many questions about what constitutes a record and how a record should be dealt with, we will hold a half-day Records Storage Day, soon. The beginning portion of that period of time will be used to discuss and educate the Town Hall users and the balance of the period will be used to allow staff to perform any necessary electronic records management on their individual computers. Meeting end: 2:30 p.m. Next Meeting: Thursday, June 19, 2008 at 1:00 p.m. TOWN OF ITHACA Records Management Advisory Board Karen Billings, Town Clerk and RMAB Chair • Herb Engman, Town Supervisor • Pat Leary, Town Board Member • Dan Walker, Town Engineer • Laura W. Johnson-Kelly, Town Historian • Gail Kroll, Public Works • Lisa Carrier-Titti, Network Technician MEETING AGENDA Meeting Date: October 16, 2008 Meeting Place: Tioga Room, Town Hall 1. Discuss Records Management Day and Half Day in Town Hall (1/2 day in November for e-records and Full day in February) 2. Discuss E-mail policy (review attached document) 3. Discuss Records Management Policy Present: Herb Engman, Judy Drake, Lisa Carrier-Titti (excused early), Dan Walker and Karen Billings Review of Draft Town of Ithaca E-Mail Use Policy The conversation started with some clarification on whether this was a stand - alone Policy or a change to the current policy in the Employee Handbook. Judy clarified that there is a policy for email use in place and Herb suggested that the title be changed to reflect the focus on record management versus use. Lisa discussed her research into programs and devices that would characterize and save emails with the focus on records management and archiving. There was further discussion on the processes and access. Lisa explained from an IT perspective. Karen discussed having a Records Management Day on October 21st. Discussion followed and it was decided that it was very important to take the first hour or so and answer questions from Staff about what to save and where and how. Specifics of the (e-mail) policy were reviewed. Judy noted that any reference to disciplinary actions would have to be reviewed by the Union and she would prefer they come out. Suggested changes: Title – Change to Email Records Management Policy Use of – Remove from “Staff will not use…” to the end. Potential System Abuses – Remove. Roles & Responsibility – Change RMAB to Records Management Officer and Network Administrator and remove “consider organization…” sentence. Disciplinary Action – Remove. Policy Review – Change “Town Clerk” to Records Management Officer It was decided that Karen would make the changes and distribute to the RMAB for one more review and it would be put in front of the Town Board in December. Herb thought it should go out via email to the Board prior to the meeting for their comments. Records Management Policy & Procedures Manual The main question surrounded which definition of a document should be used. There was some confusion and it was decided that the definition should be consistent whenever it was used by the Town. This will require a change to the Local Law. Herb was in favor of a tracking system for who has access to, and takes out records from storage. He also thought making some indication of draft or final is useful. Disposition and the Clerks Access database were discussed. Karen will make some changes to the Manual and send to the RMAB. Records Management Day: Karen questioned how a records management day could happen if everyone was still not clear on what a record is and how it should be saved. It was decided that it would be important to start the day with a meeting for all staff to answer these questions. The RMAB would meet again to prepare. Lisa also thought some training could be done at PEZ. TOWN OF ITHACA Records Management Advisory Board Karen Billings, Town Clerk and RMAB Chair • Herb Engman, Town Supervisor • Pat Leary, Town Board Member • Dan Walker, Town Engineer • Laura W. Johnson-Kelly, Town Historian • Gail Kroll, Public Works • Lisa Carrier-Titti, Network Technician MEETING Notes Meeting Date: November 20, 2008 Meeting Place: Tioga Room, Town Hall, 1:00 p.m. Present: Herb Engman; Pat Leary; Judy Drake; Lisa Carrier-Titti; Dan Walker; Karen Billings; Laura Johnson-Kelly; Gail Kroll 1. Email Policy Pat commented that the email policy was being driven by what could happen in a lawsuit, which she said is sometimes at odds with keeping records to do business. She noted that FOIL is mentioned in the policy but, it does not address the fact that unless a document is a final agency determination, then it’s not subject to disclosure. Pat thought that it was important to address this in the policy. Karen asked if Pat was interested in keeping records pertaining to the discussions that led to final policy determinations. Pat noted that there are three categories: things that are records, things that are not records and records that are subject to FOIL. She did not want to go crazy destroying everything as the Town moves forward. Karen noted it would be important to categorize records. If Pat was talking about another policy not dealing with e-mail, then it needed to be delineated. Pat asked if following the MU -1 schedule was required (by the state) and Pat was informed it was a suggestion. Herb suggested it would be helpful to discuss the policy. Pat pointed out changes that had been suggested to the policy, but not made. Discussion ensued regarding information email communication and how it may be subject to FOIL. Herb and Pat discussed draft forms of documents. Dan noted that the Town does release draft minutes. Pat stated that the records leading up to the final form of a document were not releasable under FOIL; Herb disagreed. Karen read from the law what records are not releasable under FOIL. She stated that if something is determined a “record” then it is FOIL-able unless it falls under one of the exempt categories. Lisa provided an example scenario and the scenario was discussed. Redaction of records was discussed. For example, redacting is done if the information is an invasion of privacy or poses a danger to a person. Lisa asked if they were still debating whether to use the phrase “be careful what you put in an email, because it may be foilable.” Pat just felt that it was important to understand what is foilable so people are not afraid to communicate meaningfully. Dan thought the records that are foilable included more than Pat did. Pat thought “final agency determination” is specific and that term is used to make those determinations. Herb asked for a bulleted list with records that are exempt from FOIL because he was confused. Pat said we are not really concerned with the personal privacy law, it doesn’t come up much here and that list really pertains to personnel records. Herb disagreed and quoted the sentence again. Herb said that he wants to know what applies to the Town. Pat responded that it is not a list, but rather categories and to just remember that the foilable documents are the final agency determinations. Herb disagreed. Discussion followed. Herb suggested that the first four pages of the draft policy stand alone as the Email policy with Appendices taken off and the laws taken off because it causes confusion. Laura was concerned about people getting rid of emails too soon. She had an issue in the past where people had gotten rid of emails and she needed them to reference. Pat agreed saying she uses documents from year to year for examples. Karen agreed and said she saves everything but she saves it on her computer not on her email system. That is what is being encouraged. Lisa added that items moved onto the hard drive or computer system are retrievable even if they have been deleted because the Town does backups. Discussion followed. Lisa gave an overview of new software/hardware that is available to index emails. Herb asked about the management policy insomuch as there are often 6 people working on the same thing and who is responsible for keeping the official copy. Karen responded that it is usually the originator. For example, Judy sent out the policy, she should keep it or be responsible for saving it where it belongs. Everyone else can delete it. Karen added that right now, the Town’s official copy is the paper copy. As it stands, an email that should be kept should be printed out, everything else could be deleted. Karen summarized the changes. Keep pages 1 through 4 , make Herb’s changes under Privacy and Access and submit this to the Town Board at the December 8 th meeting as the E-Policy. Pat added she would like to delete “exercise proper judgment & etiquette” because it is redundant. Discussion followed and it was decided that “& etiquette” be deleted in that sentence. “In the Town” was also deleted on page 2. Pat asked about Laura’s suggestion. “Email is a communication system….messages should not be kept for an extended time”….The time saved is too short. Make it clearer that it means to move from email to the server. Herb was confused by the phrase “appropriate electronic system”. It was decided to change that to “transfer from the email system to the Town’s network server according to the Records Management Officer in conjunction with the Network Administrator.” The objective is not only to unclog the email system, but to centralize documents so people who need to find it can find it. Karen and Lisa reiterated that the 6-month timeline is for correspondence only. Herb suggested that the policy be sent out as early as possible to the Board so they can ask questions. Judy also wanted Staff to receive it so their comments could be heard. Item #2 Karen sent a primer “Pitfalls of Email” in preparation for tomorrow’s Records Management Day. She summarized the plan and the handout was reviewed. Pat had questions about the personal messages. It implies that staff can not save personal messages. Judy thought it was more you don’t need to save them. Pat thought it should be clearer that they can save them but they don’t have to be. Discussion followed. Pat thought this was “a lot of fuss for nothing” because the FOIL law is very explicit in saying only the final agency copy is foilable. If this policy is driven by FOIL, it’s unnecessary and inhibiting. People are used to email systems and organizing within email systems and they shouldn’t be told they can’t, in her opinion. Discussion followed. Karen asked if Lisa would like to give a presentation on the software/hardware and she said she would be happy to set something up with her vendor. Next meeting is December 18th at 1:00 p.m. in the Tioga Room.